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Ah. Gotcha. She’s not endorsing the quote. She’s calling into question the way in which it is being applied by the person tweeting. I think she’s right. The use of the verse in that way is irresponsible and reprehensible.
Good points about ducking the tough questions/angles.
What the fuck is a perfectly appropriate question. There are many devout Christian asking the same question.
I addressed your concern a little last we spoke, but another thing to consider is that love may be of higher value than lack of suffering. This is shown in that Jesus preferred to love rather than to avoid suffering. It may be that a universe where we can choose to love and a universe where all suffering is avoided cannot be the same universe.
The observable evidence of a God-filled universe is supposed to come in the form of Christians who act together to end suffering as often as possible. It seems we’ve failed miserably, but it’s sometimes harder to see the positive side of that when the negative side can be so loud and terrible. I’m sure there is SOME good coming from Christians in the world.
I’d never deny your existence, thedevilprobably. I am sorry for the way Christians have treated you. It embarrasses me greatly.
Right. I agree. Two things.
1. I’m reading into thedevilprobably’s comment at “something something free will” to be a call back to our last conversation on the subject which is here:
2. It sounds like you’re having the same problem that facetaco had which is separating the bad theology of guys like John Piper and Pat Robertson from the theology that I believe is most prevalent in Christendom. In other words, I believe neither of the positions you propose to be true of God. But, we’ve (as in everyone, athiest and Christian alike) caricatured Westboro Baptist and Pat Robertson so much, we’ve (Christians) forgotten what we believe and can’t even communicate it well to anyone else. So we only see what’s wrong with a crappy view of God and can no longer iterate an appropriate, biblical, logical, moral, complete view of God. I posted Evans’ article because she articulates a healthier view intelligently and in the voice of the current generation.
Maybe this will be more relevant than the last link I spit at you:
Brother Blitzer was making an assumption in order to connect with his interviewee and likely audience. It was awkward for him because he doesn’t normally try to connect in that way and it was funny because of how big a swing-and-a-miss it was. He needed some suspenders of disbelief because his stereotypes were showing.
Good thoughts, thedevilprobably (haha; your name makes your comment that much better).
I think your question assumes the same thing facetaco assumes which is that a belief in God requires a belief that he mandates everything that happens here (see “divine determinism” in the link above). That’s not how I think about God. It is, however, the loudest and most popular voice in Western Christendom. And it’s really quite a miserable way to think about life. “Congratulations, you were born and predestined to hell! Life will suck no matter which way you turn because I am the Lord and I say so! Remember that time I gave your mom cancer? Wasn’t that great!” Who wants to hang out with that guy? Nobody. And for good reason (though Jesus has some interesting things to say about people who are in misery in this world; he keeps calling them blessed.)
To address your question more directly, the world is fallen and affected by the choices we make which are our own. Chaos is simply the representation of the things that are not a result of our choices (earthquakes, hurricanes, cancer). I don’t believe God commands those things to happen, but I do believe he allows them to happen. “But, Dish, if God allows it to happen, then he’s not really worth worshiping either, because if he’s all-powerful then he could stop it!” You’ve just stumbled on one of the oldest conversations in the book; the problem of evil. Without writing for another few hours, the thought that helps me most is that without evil, there is nothing for us to compare good to.
I agree with nearly everything in your second paragraph. The only part I take issue with is that whether I’m worthy or not doesn’t come into play. God does a lot of good things for people who aren’t worthy. Everyone is worthy of consideration because everyone is made by God is the assumption I subscribe to.
“I’m good enough, I’m smart enough” only applies if you don’t believe he’s listening. Otherwise, it’s like having a conversation with a friend who doesn’t speak back in a traditional way.
Ultimately, to me, prayer is a plea to God to reconcile the world to the best place ever and for God to make that happen right now. Popular imagination of what a reconciled wold looks like is limited to someone sitting on a cloud with a halo and a harp (aka really boring). I believe it looks a lot more like the best times in life, only better, right here, right now.
This will probably come across as insular to Christianity, but here’s a good article addressing some of what you’re asking:
To synthesize, no, I don’t think we’re praying for God to stop making that woman’s daughter sick or for him to stop bombing people (Pat Robertson’s pop-theology is pitiful, y’all). I think we’re asking God to do a better job of controlling the chaos of the world. I guess I’m a weird person who believes he listens and cares if we choose to participate in that conversation or not.
Meanwhile, Kramer is ranked number 2 overall in the world on Angry Birds Star Wars edition; can’t knock off top player, “Samuel L.”
Jerry maligns the rules for Facebook relationship statuses. Settles on “It’s complicated.”
You should check out his handy work in the movie The Last Run (don’t check it out; it’s terrible and may scar your psyche)
My hair – Perfectly coifed
Eye patch – Chic
Baby’s hat – Stylin’
Kourtney’s hair – Windblown beauty
To complete the look of American Royalty I just need one minor adjustment…
Eat your heart out, William and Kate.
Alive – Rugby players take teamwork to a new level in order to win at life.
The Karate Kid – Jersey Boy waxes and wanes in order to learn to kick like a bird; fit in with California girl and friends. Okinawan maintenance man benefits with nicer backyard.
Snow Falling on Cedars – It was the one-armed man!
Goonies – A group of teenage nerds chase a wily, one-eyed pirate back to sea.
I have to admit I kept making dumb jokes the whole time so I wouldn’t cry and to distract my wife from crying, but Max’s speech sealed the deal.
Her doctor’s delivery of the post-surgery news had a very genuine feel to it. Excellent scene. Tough.
See, “Hey, What’s Up with Topher Grace” for comment. It’s so meta.
Ginger kid is so pissed right now.
Great video. A winner is we.
“He’s gone.” – A half-truth. Gone where? Dead.
“I’m out.” – A half-truth. Out of what? Cooking.
Look on the sunny side; it may have seemed over-easy, but at least the hard boiled hearts of a few were cracked.
Ah, man, you’re pissing in my cheerios with all of your logic and understanding…
I predicted Ted wasn’t dead last year. I also predicted Jesse and Hank v. Walt. I just want it to be right so bad. Maybe then, somebody will love me.
The reason I think Hank and Jesse is because how strongly the show is insinuating that it’s Mike. These guys (the writers) are good at making it look one way and having it end up being another (see the exaggerated reports of Ted’s death). But I do think something’s totally up with that watch. Hank’s playing his cards too close to the vest. Jesse’s not fooled any longer by Walt’s manipulations. We don’t know how he broke up with his girlfriend, but I’d bet he just sent them away for safety. After Walt pulled the old cigarette in the Roomba trick, I’m guessing Jesse saw through it for what it was. These are the things that are adding up to me.
Obviously, all speculation and not a whole lot of evidence to go off of, but it’s a fun game to play.